611: Learning How to Sell | Rana Kordahi

In this episode, we are joined by Rana Kordahi, a renowned sales coach and trainer from The Selling Academy, to explore the art of selling. With over 20 years of experience in Sales, Rana brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the table, sharing insights and best practices for building successful sales teams and strategies.

Her work evolved into training and coaching in sales. For the past 10 years, Rana has trained and coached thousands of Sales and non-salespeople in sales communication, prospecting, pipeline management, and cold calling. She has also trained hundreds of consultants at some of the big 4 consulting firms like KPMG and PWC, in sales and influence.

Throughout the conversation, Rana breaks down a 6-step process, and key principles of effective selling. Although Rana conducts a lot of sales coaching and training, she also does a lot of selling in her own business. She still makes cold calls, demos and discovery calls, and believes that sales coaches and managers must do so because it’s the only way to be good at what they teach and preach.

Rana’s achievements are speaking for TEDx on Sales, being featured as a Top 10 Female Sales Coach in 2020 by Yahoo Finance, recognized as Top 15 Sales Experts to Watch in 2021 by The Australian Business Journal. And she helped most sales and non-sales teams hit their sales targets by an average of 120%+ and achieved a 98.4% 5-star rating for her sales training for 10 years straight.

Whether you’re a seasoned sales professional or just starting in the field, this episode offers valuable insights and practical tips for improving your sales performance and driving business growth. So tune in and join us for this informative conversation with Rana Kordahi from the Selling Academy.

Conquer Local is presented by Vendasta. We have proudly served 5.5+ million local businesses through 60,000+ channel partners. Learn more about Vendasta and we can help your organization or learn more about Vendasta’s Affiliate Program and how our listeners (like yourself) are making up to $10,000 off referrals.

Are you an entrepreneur, salesperson, or marketer? Keep the learning going in the Conquer Local Academy.

Learning How To Sell

Introduction 

George: This is the Conquer Local podcast A show about billion-dollar sales leaders, marketers leading local economic growth, and entrepreneurs that have created their dream organizations. They wanna share their secrets giving you the distilled version of their extraordinary feats. Our hope is with the tangible takeaways from each episode you can rewire, rework, and reimagine your business. I’m George Leith. On this episode, we welcome Rana Kordahi. Rana has worked in a variety of sales roles in industries like construction, recruitment, employment services, real estate, timeshares, education, and software. For the last 10 years, she trained and coached thousands of sales and non-sales people in sales communication, prospecting, pipeline management, and the ever-popular cold calling. She’s trained hundreds of consultants at some of the big four consulting firms like KPMG, Pricewaterhouse Coopers, in sales and influence. Rana has also spoke for TEDx on sales. She was featured as a top 10 female sales coach in 2020 by Yahoo Finance and was also featured as a top 15 sales experts to watch in 2021 by the Australian Business Journal. Stay tuned. Rana Kordahi is coming up next on the Conquer Local podcast. 

George: Rana Kordahi joining us all the way from Sydney, Australia. Rana, welcome to the Conquer Local podcast.

Rana: Thank you so much. Thank you so much, George.

George: It’s great to have you on this show.

Rana: I’m excited to be here.

Background and History 

George: It’s great to have you on the show today. And I wanna learn more about you. We did cover some of the bio in the intro but I always like to have our guests from their own words tell us a little bit about their background. So Rana, could you give us your background? It says here a 20-year career in sales so I’d love to understand a little bit more about what some of that background entails.

Rana: So I started in sales very young obviously first in retail telemarketing. Then I went into B2B sales, then recruitment. Then I worked in something called employment services which is government-funded disability employment. And that was the hardest sales job because you had to actually sell people to employers. And it was usually people that were unemployed for a long time or had disabilities. And then eventually I started my own business doing sales training. And I still, I still sell. Even at the moment, I have a salesperson but I still say to her like, don’t take the whole pipeline. I need some because I need to continue practicing otherwise I would lose the craft of making cold calls.

George: Well, before we get into a little bit about The Selling Academy and more about you, you touched on something that is interesting. I’ve been a part of some conversations this week with some leadership groups and they’re saying, you know, salespeople won’t follow a leader that can’t do, do you agree with that?

Rana: I absolutely agree, and I think, like for example if I’m telling people, you need to do this and you need to make calls and things like that and you’re not doing it yourself, or even if you’ve done it but you’re out of practice then I think it’s almost like you’re, I don’t wanna say maybe hypocrite what’s the right word to say?

Six-Step Process to Ensure Sales Success

George: Well, I hypocrite, I actually have used that term. But it’s interesting because if you’re not in the sales business, I don’t know if you get it like you just don’t, it’s one of those businesses that we can see an imposter coming a mile away. It’s hard. And I think it’s also encouraging for young sellers to know that, you know old and I, you know, I’m way older than you, I’ve been doing it for a long, long time that, you know, we still cold call we’ll still send 20 text messages to get the attention of a prospect. We will follow up with a customer at 10 o’clock at night if that’s what it takes to ensure customer success. And I think it’s important for them to see that because you can go watch a multitude of you know, YouTube videos, podcasts, read books and everybody’s telling you what to do. But you know, I feel that true sales leadership, you gotta be able to show it and you gotta be able to prove that you can do it. Now, one of the things that I read, when we were getting ready for this interview, was this incredible six-step process that you’ve come up with and it is a part of the foundation of your learning when you’re out coaching on sales professionals. So I’d love to understand that. Let’s unpack that six-step process a little bit more.

Rana: Okay, so usually when I go into organizations specifically when it comes to, ’cause my specialty is employment services or non-sales people. And a lot of the time, they don’t want to do anything to do with sales. So the few-step process I do is like number one is, I get them to identify the differences between a trusted advisor, a consultative sales approach, and a pushy transactional salesperson. And I say, okay, make a list. Like how would a trusted advisor speak? How would they behave? And then they obviously, they like, they listen they tailor the message to the customer, they care about the customer, they care about the customer’s success. So that’s number one. Know that you are a trusted advisor or become a trusted advisor. Once they know that they’re not, you know this sleazy 1990s pushy salespeople and they don’t have to be there’s like this whole burden that comes off their shoulders. Number two, I get them to identify the impact that they’re making when they make a sale. So whether it’s the impact to the customer’s life or to their own life, whether it’s they’re making commission or whatever it is, or even that job satisfaction or even helping their colleagues keep, I know it’s harsh but keeping the jobs in the organization because without revenue there’s layoffs. So just think about the impact every time you’re making that call you make sales, you are creating jobs. So that’s number two. Number three is change the story you tell yourself before you pick up the phone. Like, what are you saying? I hate sales, I’m bad at sales. Or the customers hate salespeople. It doesn’t matter. Maybe it’s true but just change it and just bring what, immerse yourself into more empowering beliefs. Number four, change your physiology. So the way you walk, the way you breathe before picking up the phone. Number five, expect rejection. It’s part of the game, it’s part of sales. And number six is develop mastery. So model excellence, do courses, read books, and the only way you can really learn is to practice and get on the phone or whatever, go out and get rejected and just analyze what you did well, what you did not do well, and what you can do better. So that’s in a nutshell ’cause I mean I tried to explain it in two minutes, but I don’t know how that long took.

George: No, and you know what I’m so impressed by is the simplicity of it and the way that you explain it so that any sales rep, regardless of whether they’re junior or they’ve been doing it for like, those six pieces are pieces that everyone needs to remember.

Rana: Yeah, I mean it’s, I think sometimes people do it unconsciously or but I think working with enough people that are not confident or scared to get on the phone, I just started to, or even like meeting many people and I was just like, okay, what are they doing? What is it that they’re doing? And I just kind of put it into six kind of things that they do.

Growth in Sales

George: So when you are analyzing this and you said something very interesting at the end of your delivery on those six steps of the process is there also is a component of teaching the sales rep the ability to have that out-of-body moment and kind of do your own adjudication and becoming self-aware of how you are delivering those six components. And that’s such an important part of the growth, isn’t it?

Rana: Yeah, definitely. So I mean being aware and being self-aware of how you are delivering or even your thought process of what you think is critical to the success of whatever you wanna do.

George: It’s so interesting that off the top you were talking about trusted advisor, consultive sales approach which we all know is what good looks like. It probably always has been what good looks like. And then you talked about the flip side of it which is pushy and I always go to used car salesperson but that’s not fair to used car salespeople. It could be pushy any type of salesperson and that transactional, you know, get the commission run as fast as you can before they figure out that you’ve told them lies kind of thing. That really is something that we have to break down in society when people think of sales because you and I both know that sales is about delivering value. You talk about impact, you talk about outcome, you talk about having a positive mindset, understanding that rejection’s going to be there. But I think when we just are in a group of 10 random people and say sales, they think of the last time they got screwed over by a salesperson.

Rana: Yeah, I mean at the end of the day there’s a lot to unpack from what you said, but definitely I mean you could be pushed in any type of role whether you are with your spouse whether you’re selling cars or whether you are preaching in a church or you are selling something like a trusted advisor. So at the end of the day, I think like it’s if you get back to psychology, people need autonomy in their choice and they need control over their choices. So if they feel like someone is pushing them into a choice they either say yes if they’re not assertive but then they get a refund later or they ghost you, or they just say no and they’re like resist even more. So they go either that way or that way from my experience.

TEDx Presentation: “How to Achieve Anything in Life by Learning How to Sell.”

George: So one of the things that I noticed when we were doing the research on your career and when you go to your LinkedIn profile we talk about this TEDx presentation that you gave and I love the title, “How to Achieve Anything in Life by Learning How to Sell.” And I think any of us that have been in the sales business for a long time realize that everything is sales, the entire world is sales. A lot of people don’t recognize that, but I loved watching that presentation. What I’d love to get you to share with our audience because I think it’s probably a bit of a bucket list or a wish of people I gotta do a TED talk, I’ve gotta do one. You know, I have that, I haven’t done one yet. I’d love to do one. So I’d like to hear from you, you know, how much preparation did you do before you gave that presentation? You know, was there a number of topics that you could have chose? You know, how did you arrive at the moment that this was the topic that you were gonna deliver on that very well-recognized brand and stage of the TED Talks?

Rana: I think I chose it obviously because it was for my career so it was a selfish choice. Like I could have spoken about many other things that could have had more views. A very interesting, controversial, but I just thought, okay just what is it that is going to help you in your career? But at the same time, I’m also passionate about selling so it was very easy for me to just talk about it. But I did, I felt like, I don’t wanna say dumb it down but I had to make the talk, like I thought, okay my audience are not salespeople, it’s just anybody, right? So how can I resonate with anybody that’s watching it and it doesn’t matter where they’re from in the world to understand, you know like sales is important and learning how to sell? Obviously, I just gave a few little basic tips on selling as well. Yeah, but also I was quite lucky ’cause I knew someone that worked in that university and then they just said we’re looking for speakers. I sent them my showreel and it was there. But at the same time you said about preparation I think I over-prepared because I’ve done other talks and I prepared for them and I liked them better than my TED talk because I felt like it was just too rehearsed, too perfect and I mean, it turned out well. But yeah, sometimes you can be over-prepared and it was like, oh okay, it’s TEDx, like this is huge pressure. So I over-practiced.

George: Right, so you kind of got in your head a little bit because-

Rana: I memorized everything I was gonna say, yeah.

George: You know, it’s interesting as I hear you speak about it, we recently did an event here in our building which was a pitch party and you know you got 60 seconds to articulate your presentation to the audience. And there were, you know, we had 12 different presenters and four of them had never done something like that before. And you know, I was one of the judges, we had a couple of other judges and our advice was keep doing what you just did because it is that repetition that’s going to build the muscle. So then when you get in front of a group of people like that, it’s not as intimidating. And the other thing that I think is really interesting in your lead-up to the TED talk was it was networking that got you the speaking gig which is a big part of sales.

Rana: Oh yes, you know, I never thought about that, but you’re right. It’s who you know, it’s who you know. Definitely.

The Selling Academy

George: So your website for thesalesacademy.net this is your coaching business and what industries do you work with and you know we’d like to understand a little bit more about what makes your organization, The Selling Academy, different from other sales coaching organizations.

Rana: Okay, so that’s a tough question ’cause people when they ask me that, I’m like, to be honest with you it’s me and the way I can facilitate change and connect with people’s emotions to be able to go out and change things. It’s not even my content. I don’t have anything more special than other sales trainers and maybe there’s others that can even connect with people more. But I have the ability to get a salesperson that does not want to get on the phone that has the most, the biggest fear or maybe doesn’t really know what to say, like to be excited to get on the phone. That’s one thing I notice or they’re like, oh my god like I wanna make cold calls and thank you so much for motive, it’s like that. Yeah, so I understand people and I understand the change management process as well and usually, I work with a lot of staff in companies that are a bit resistant, but when it, yeah so people like, they’re like, what’s so different? What is it that you have? I don’t have anything revolutionary in my training you know, I don’t try and reinvent anything. I think it’s important also to continue learning. So I still do. So also something that’s different about me is I still pick up the phone as a sales trainer. I have a business I sell every day. I’m on demos like four, you know we book a bit at least four to five demos a week. So I’m on demos, I close, I, you know nurture relationships and I think I actually learned more about sales running a business than I did even before.

George: Well I work with lots of folks that do what you do on a daily basis and they all have that same narrative that, you know they gotta keep their feet in the game they have to get on calls, they’ve gotta, they gotta keep the, you know, you mentioned it you gotta keep the muscle, you gotta keep working it or you kinda lose it over time. And, you know the other thing that I find is really interesting is that you know, you are on the ground in a very tough space like selling recruitment, selling talent, really at the end of the day, that’s a, you know, there’s a big need for it. So I get it, but it also isn’t something that, you know you wake up one day and say, okay I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna sell talent for a living it’s probably not the first thing that you think of when you want to get in the sales business. Is my feeling on that, correct?

Rana: You mean, yeah, so the people I train are recruiters, right, so that’s what you’re saying?

George: Yeah. And not the first job that you would pick is to be a recruiter.

Selling Recruitment

Rana: Oh yeah, so yeah, I mean the reason I chose that is because it was one of the industries I worked in. So for example the industries I started working in were companies, industries that I have done like sales in first of all or I had specific experience in. So recruitment is the hardest because, unlike a product where you can almost guarantee 99% you know how it works, a service maybe 95% you know how it works ’cause you know like whether you send a trainer or a consultant you know that they have good results and you’ll hire them. A person might let you down so it’s 50-50, might not show up to the interview, might sabotage a job, might, you know and so your credibility with the person is with the employer is going to be sabotaged. So I think selling recruitment is the most difficult thing you can in my experience.

George: So one question then from an expert in helping recruiters do a better job and things like that is how do you properly set expectations with the buyer because you know that there is this built-in failure rate that exists so that they know that that might happen.

Rana: Yeah, so obviously you don’t wanna overpromise, you don’t want to lie to them and say everything’s perfect everything’s fantastic, at the same time you can be, as people forgive you based on how much they like you and how much they trust you. So even if you do staff up with an employer or you send them the wrong person, if you have enough of a relationship and you have obviously helped them and done a good job in the past they’re more than likely to forgive you. And at the end of the day, like yes tell them specifically don’t over promise anything.

George: And I think that is great advice regardless of what you’re selling by setting those proper expectations, building a high level of trust, you know, based upon what the prospect told you. You told me you wanted these four parameters I’ve investigated it deeply this person looks like they have them. We’ll have to wait and see. But I’ve, you know, it, I get it. And it’s great that that is one of the key components of your program. Now, if someone wants to learn more from you or would be interested in some of your coaching which seems to be very one-on-one based, and I’m a big believer in that how would they go about connecting with you? And of course, we will have all the links in the show notes to your LinkedIn profile, your website, and The Selling Academy, is there any other ways that we could reach out and get more of your content?

Rana: Most of my content is on LinkedIn or you can see it on my Instagram, but I’m trying to remember ’cause I changed the Instagram handle. So it could be, just look me up on Instagram and you’ll find me.

George: No problem, we’ll put the right-

Rana: Under my name.

George: We’ll put the right URL in the show notes. Well, our producer Sully he’ll make sure that that happens. But you know, we get lots of requests from our listeners to connect with guests like you so that they could, you know, get in touch with more of your content or reach out to you directly. So we wanna make sure that we make that available.

Rana: Yeah, so I mean they can email me directly Rana@thesellingacademy.net, 

George: Well, Rana, it’s a privilege having you on the show today, all the way from Sydney, Australia. And thanks for bearing with us. We have a bit of a delay in our connection but I’m sure that it’ll all come out awesome in post. That’s a line from the TV business, it’ll all come out in post.

Rana: Thank you so much, George for having me. Thank you for keeping your energy up despite doing so many podcasts today and I appreciate your attention, and you’re a great person.

George: Thanks, Rana, well, have a great day. We appreciate you being on the show.

Rana: You too, thank you.

Conclusion

George: It was a pleasure speaking today to Rana Kordahi. A few insights into today’s episode. She mentioned her six-step process and how that process is crucial to the success of sales. Despite coaching hundreds of salespeople, she still makes her own discovery calls and demos all the time. She also mentioned that change management is crucial. While she works with a lot of staff that are resistant she mentions it’s important for everyone involved to continuously learn. And lastly, to facilitate change we must be empathetic with our learners. If you liked Rana’s episode, discussing learning how to sell, let’s continue the conversation by checking out these episodes, Episode 548, “Selling with Love,” by Jason Marc Campbell and episodes 305 and 306, “The Four Mental Leashes,” with Jason Forrest. Please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to the podcast. And thank you for joining us this week on the Conquer Local podcast. My name is George Leith, I’ll see you when I see you.